muscle96ss

What was the evidence? Just curious. I had gotten to know on a somewhat personal level, because of a mistake on both of our parts. We both got it straightened out. But I did receive a package from him that came from China, but I would think shipping straight from Russia would be more scrutinized by Customs then those coming in from China. There's a lot of eBay business between the US and China, but not so much between Russia. Always respect what you think Muscle69.

 

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The information you just presented that he shipped it from China is pretty much what I was referring to. It doesn't make a lot of sense for him to ship it from Russia to China and then the U.S.. It would increase the risk of seizures and add to the cost. From my conversations with him, he seemed like a good dude and was very likeable; but I don't know that I believe many of the things he said.

I have always thought they were china made

Should we also assume that these hyges are chinese made also ?

 

Im just wondering why all these guys using russian? Possibly because the market is just oversaturated with shit chinese generics?

The hyges that HGHman and HK are selling are from China. However, I am not sure if the hyges that Italian Muscle is referring to are the same ones or not.

Are these the new packaging? Comes cold ?

 

Im impressed

 

There is a russian connection on all the better gh coming out now .

 

First it was

 

6f russian redtop

6f whitetop

 

Now

 

Russian stars

Russian hyge browntop

You are assuming that 6F was actually telling the truth and his GH was made in Russia. There is evidence that suggests otherwise.

We've went round and round on many subjects. That other board too. If you think that a facilities sterile enviroment, sterility protocols, sterile product chain, and as simple as storage do not matter I can't change your mind. When one injects a compound in their body they by-pass the natural protection system the body has. Sterility is #1 in ''purity''

 

I just find it odd when I was saying chinese gens were a decent alternative to mega expensive USDA gh there was a band wagon against them, Now it seems the tide has turned. I get the whole ''this guy bought a gh production facility and their product is 99% pure'' theme but you can't be serious that they match a billion dollar 'Controlled Industry that is subject to multi million dollar lawsuits if they have one single vial come up dirty.

 

Testing is great but people need to know facts. There is absolutely no way to control the study\test with a online presence. Before you 2 go crazy again , I'm not questioning your motives or integrity , just pointing out cold hard fact. The regular joe is best going off their personal testing and results rather than ''posted findings'' .

 

Just be Safe ya'all!!

I think you are confusing the terms "purity" and "contamination". The production process of AAS and HGH are very different and the nature of the products are very different as well. Purity is simply how much of the GH protein complex is actually GH and not byproducts of the production process. The way the production process works, you start out with the raw material. You send it through the first run and you end up with a lot less GH then you started and a very unpure product. You run it through again and further purify, each time ending up with less product then you started and a higher purity. You keep going until you get to the purity you want. Its a little more complicated than what I am making it out to be, but the concept is the same. So the only thing that would prevent a UG GH from reaching pharmaceutical purity is by not bothering to continue the purification process far enough. The location of the facility or its cleansliness really has nothing to do with the actual purity of the final product. Whether it contains heavy metals, contaminants, or whatever is a totally different question and what I think you are alluding to; but has nothing to do with the "purity" of the GH. I hope this makes sense.

Simple. Ghost asked if I can believe these chinese generics are as pure as American Pharmacy made GH. I gave my opinion, no. Sorry if that bothers some of you but there is no way in hell you are going to convince me a chinese underground lab in a dirty warehouse is going to produce a GH as pure as a US Multi Billion dollar company in a quality controlled, sanitized sealed, state of the art facility.

 

Do the chins have decent gens -Yes, I've done a boat load

The problem is that you are assuming that all the generic GH is being made in a "chinese underground lab in a dirty warehouse". In addition, the purity of the GH has nothing to do with the location or cleansliness of the facility. When it comes to purity, anybody that manufactures GH can make it as pure as they want; it just takes greater expense. If you understood the purification process you would understand what I am saying. So, you are welcome to believe what you want, but your beliefs should be based on proper knowledge.

Is this the same Omega that has sold the gropep IGF-1 for years? I think he got in a car wreck and disappeared for a number of years and then came back a few years ago.

Ok, you're right . I don't believe you or them. 99% from a generic chin ? If you believe that pm me and I have a Purple Unicorn I'll sell you

I posted the actual HPLC scans and raw data on PM; so if you have something better that shows something different than post away. Everybody always bitches and complains that serums don't mean shit and have this conspiracy theory that the Chinese are giving us peptides or tricking us in some manner. They want lab tests to show whats really in the product. Well here they are. You don't have to believe them, but the tests are real.

janoshik is an accredited lab? You can still post the scans, only blackout sensitive info.

Jano uses an accredited lab for the immunoassay. Everything was discussed in public before we went with him and it was known that the only people that would see scans would be Raj, myself, and Big A. In addition, the results of the immunoassay are simply a number, which is the amount of mg in the sample. So there really is nothing to see.

Okay brother, feel free to correct me. I'm listening and i'm not ignorant, so learn me a thing or two.

AND.

Uh yes, i'm very well aware of the Chinese producing Jintropin and hyges. I once found a list of accredited facilities in China producing pharmaceutical grade HGH. There were basically like two. I'm pissed because I had a screenshot on my phone and I just deleted that shit, but it basically shows all the pharmaceutical grade HGH that are made in recognized facilities and jins and hyges I believe are two of them in china, they're may have been one more, honestly cant remember. But basically Jins were able to be used in hospitals and pharmacies in China so technically for them it would be a pharmaceutical grade. I just don't think it was ever FDA approved.

 

I could be off by a detail or two in that last paragraph, that's not the point. The point is just because Jins came from china does not mean the Chinese "know what they're doing". It's apples and oranges. Jins were made in a legit facility. There are a small number of legit facilities in China. Certainly not ALL of the Chinese generics are coming from them. An extremely small portion. I pretty much consider legit jins pharm grade anyway because that's what I think they are. Same as the "generics" coming from Brazil. They are technically "Generics" but are owned by multi billion dollar companies. However these generics can still be used in hospitals, etc.

 

The other Generics (blue tops, etc. honestly the majority), are the Chinese trying to make money by using hand me down equipement or renting some facility for the weekend or using some shady bullshit tactic to produce batches for profit. Honestly idk what they do but it's not the same way Jintropin was made, certainly not the same place.

 

And, if there is ONE generic hgh that I would try and hear good things about it is absolutely The Grey Tops from authorized dealers. That's literally the only one I would give the time of day too just because I've been hearing too many good things on all of the forums. In the world of generics that's a very small range I would be willing to work with though.

You are correct in that there are only 4 or 5 legit factories licensed to produce GH in China. The grey tops do come from a GMP facility while most others, including TP's blacks come from UG facilities. What I was implying with Jin's is that the technology is not new and quality GH is not that hard to produce given the proper equipment. While that equipment is expensive, once you have it, producing GH is not very costly. In other words, someone who has the capability of producing GH would be a fool to skimp on quality when they can make a very good living without skimping. With all the testing we have been doing on PM, it seems as if most sources have upped their game and realize that they won't last long selling krapp. With that said, prior to us getting smart and doing serums, IGF-1's, and lab tests; there was a lot of bunk GH on the market.

I didn't see in any post on what third party lab did the testing. Is the results available for all to see on the Testing Labs site?

 

I trust PD here on this site, I've been using him for a year. The Greys work and there is no doubt in my mind.

The HPLC's scans are there and were performed by janoshik. The immunoassay was performed at an accredited lab that Big A, Raj, and myself are aware of the details of. I have the original scans but it was agreed upon prior to the testing that those scans would not be made public due to legal issues and keeping people out of trouble.

The problem I see is with everyones inability to understand the tests completely. I don't believe the hgh serum test really means shit. You can have a high serum test and a low IGF1 score. I've seen this before. If you're IGF1 tests low that means your hgh is doing nothing.

 

Also, barely anyone takes a control IGF1 with the gear they're running and then a retest after they've introduced the growth. A lot of AAS like tren for instance can absolutely raise IGF1, I've seen this as well on my own personal labs.

 

And regarding Mass Spec, from what I've read it compares the tested product to the weight of what an ideal 191aa hgh molecule should be. However the weight will not reveal anything about the shape of the polypeptide or how its folded meaning it can't tell you if the growth hormone is even bioactive.

 

No I do not have a problem trusting people. I just think there are a small group of people who are really smart enough to understand this stuff. I just think the majority of testing situations really do not tell you whether the hgh is even doing anything in the body. I think the best chance though is definitely before and after IGF1 scores. Serum tests can give you a starting point and at least let you know relatively quickly if it's completely bunk, but I don't think it's much good for anything more then that. I see ridiculous serum numbers from lab work on many other boards that don't make any sense. 56.0 off of 2ius and shit...

 

The Chinese making these generics. For the most part, it is all an experiment for them. Or most of them. Meaning they're continuously trying to refine the process and get better at it. GET BETTER AT IT?!? There should be nothing to get better at. It should be PERFECT. With pharmaceuticals, its essentially perfection. DONE. Remember that.

 

HGH is very finicky, I believe that on paper everything can look good, but it can still be difficult to tell if its bioactive and doing anything in the body. The quality control measures that need to be taken to preserve and KEEP hgh bioactive are extremely tight. You're not going to see that with Chinese labs. Maybe some. I'm not trying to put down the Chinese labs as a whole. I think they're trying. I'm just trying to make you guys THINK. Theres more to it then serum, igf1, and mass spec. You can not go off of those results alone.

 

And I hear so many people on all these forums talk about the sides they would get from generics. It's like everyone looks for the sides as proof the product is real. REAL hgh is very smooth and does not produce sides like these generics do.

 

I'm really not trying to troll you guys. You're right I haven't been here long and you do seem like a good group of guys so i'll let it go. I'm sure you guys do have some sponsors here that have authentic stuff, it was wrong for me to talk about generics as a whole like that. I do believe you just really need to pay attention. More attention then you think. Again Serum doesn't mean shit, and I don't necessarily even trust mass spec. They can give you clues but it's hard to tell whether it's bioactive. Okay now i'm going in circles. Take care.

So much misinformation and myths in this post that I would not even know where to start. You have a really good basic knowledge of everything you are talking about but lack the technical knowledge to fully understand the whole picture. And therefore your conclusions are just not correct. Oh, and these Chinese that you are talking about that are experimenting and trying to make GH, just so happened to invent Jintropin many years ago. One of the owners Jintropin happened to branch off and open up Hygetropin. The technology to produce high quality GH has always been there.

How are you to determine that. Mass spec or HPLC every single batch. That would be impossible. Its the inconsistency that makes it not worth bothering with. A few good labs give suppliers and whoever make this shit the ability to play however they want. I do believe there is good HGH out there. It's not worth the wild good chase. Even the people who are truly knowledgable and at the top of this get fooled.

 

Seriously, how do you guys know what you're getting? Because of a few side effects? Because someone posted up some lab work? Because you personally send Simec every single batch? Trust? the Chinese don't know what fucking trust is.

Actually there is a provider that is actually "hands on" and tests each batch he produces. Its obvious that you have some serious trust issues and think that everybody is out to screw you. I can understand being cautious, but your stance is a little overboard. I have been using both generic and pharm grade GH for well over 20 years now and have done numerous serum GH's, IGF-1's. In addition I have seen numerous lab reports and have become knowledgeable of a lot of the sources operations. There is plenty of good, legit, high quality generic GH out there and its not hard to find with a little bit of research. Your comments are based more on fear and not on actual facts.

Generic growth hormone is a waste of time. Just sayin.

If it contains the same contents as pharma and has the same purity then how would it be a waste of time?

So am I understanding this correctly? Hplc is the growth hormone including filler and the immunoassay is the actual IU of growth hormone in the vial? So does that mean TP blacks are 15 IU/vial? I know it's basic shit but for some reason this chart has be scratching my head

The HPLC and immunoassay are simply 2 different methods of determining contents. So basically the chart is showing you the contents as determined by each method. Each method has its pros and cons and nothing is ever 100% exact. And yes, TP's has claimed his blacks to be 5mg since they came out; that was his objective when putting them on the market.

Ok, this is why I asked what was wrong with the post. I have never been a member over at ProM so I didn't know. I opened an account and put a PM in to rajjin, if he's not cool with this being posted here, I'll pull it down.

 

Does that sound fair muscle96ss?

Perfect!! I was just going to say, lets discuss it with Raj and go from there; but you beat me to it. Like I said, I want the whole world to see it as I am proud of the work we did and what we accomplished. But I am just one person with one opinion and isn't my call. In hindsight, I probably should have talked it over with Raj to begin with before posting the results today and put a notice at the top of the post so everyone would know.

Sorry was just trying to post some solid info man didnt mean for anyone to be offended by it! I edited the post? Would you like me to just delete it all together?

What PD was trying to say is that it is posted on PM in the Lab Testing Section which requires 50 posts in order to read, and was performed with the money collected by donations from the members. The rules of the lab testing section are very strict and that what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas and people will be banned if that is not adhered to.

I personally have no problem with sharing the information as it reinforces what I have been saying for years and people need to wake up and realize that the Chinese can make good quality GH at a reasonable price. However, in all fairness to the people who donated and in respect of the board and its rules; they need to be adhered to. If the donating members and Big A agree to allow them to be posted, then post away. But until then I would ask that they be removed.

The Simec results should be back soon(hopefully) and since those were funded by the sponsors themselves, I am guessing that each sponsor will be able to their respective results wherever they want.

Lastly, for those that aren't members over at PM and weren't aware of what transpired; the testing was organized by Racepicks, buck, and myself and the results are real and trustworthy. I have 100% confidence in how everything has been handled.

Pacman65/Horizon/Honda Pharm/mean greens/kalatu pharm is back under a new name. Not 100% confirmed, but its looking that way..

 

DSource at ProMuscle!

Was thinking the same thing. Again not 100% confirmed, but definitely very suspicious.

huh? im not d-red...im a mod at his board...d-red is banned from here.

Exactly, d-red is banned from here because he is a known scammer. Do you honestly believe that Ghost scammed someone for $40? Seriously, $40?

Varick, the owner of the company, has explained about the tabs. I am not going to re-state everything he has already said. i will add that although we are new to this forum, we have been doing business since November, 2015. Vaultek made previous attemtps at having a cool green color for the anadrol, but decided to go back to regular white. Yes, we can do it that fast and in 1 day's time. We have the equipment to do what we need to do. The quality has never changed and as K stated, we have experimented with colors but have found it easier to just maintain the white color.

 

I understand that we are a provisional source on this board and that we need to "prove" ourselves. The admin here would not have allowed Vaultek as a provisional source if they felt we were going to be providing substandard service/gear, we would have been told no and kicked to the curb. I also understand the members side as well. Being a customer for many years before becoming a rep, I have been burned by sources just like many of you. I would not be representing a company if there was ANY question to the quality or capacity of our production. Just keep in mind, this is a professional operation that can produce up to 10K tabs an hour.

 

I agree with Varick, we have been on the defense with the members since coming onto the forum. I have answered every question that has been asked honestly. Varick has done this as well. I was also told that this was a forum that was above the negativity and bashing seen other places. This is not what I expected either.

You and Varick keep saying that this is not what you expected. You have smart members here who are asking tough questions when things appear fishy. My suggestion would be to anticipate when things are going to look suspicious and communicate ahead of time to prevent things like this from happening. I mean come on, you send out an order where one bottle of anadrol is a different color than the other bottle. What did you expect to happen? Who wouldn't question that? So to sit here and say that this is not what you expected is an insult to our intelligence.

at this point hes come up with every excuse why he cant deliver now everyone who had contact with him says hes not responding... i would not attempt any order with this source until he clears the really big mess up hes made for himself!

I dont recall where i saw it, but he posted that he was taking a month or so off and maybe permanently.

I have been taking low dose of t3 50mcg for the past 4 months now on and off. About 2 weeks ago I tapered off and stopped taking it. Since then I have been steadily putting fat on ,my face is bloated as fuck, and I'm sleepy 24/7. My diet is absolutely clean, taking in less than 2k calories a day, grilled chicken and veggies, nuts and some fruit post workout. Should I wait to get blood work done, or just get it done now?

It should bounce back to normal, but it will take a few weeks. I would wait another 2 weeks before getting blood work.

Just got this in my email from William Lewellyn's company, Molecular Nutrition.

 

http://www.roidtest.com/

Looks to me like a copy of the labmax kits, but at a much higher cost.

I'm curious what part of doggcrapp you think is good? Or relevant?

There is a whole forum dedicated to this style of "training". If you feel as if you're missing anything.

 

Believe you me you are not missing anything and can get more benefits from a number of any other strength programs just a Google search away.

 

The whole shenanigans was smoke for an ulterior agenda anyways. If my memory serves me correct.

Ulterior agenda?? I'm going to bet that you know absolutely nothing about the guy to make a statement like that. I don't even know where to begin for a rebuttal and anybody that has been around the block a couple times knows what DC is about anyways.

Don't worry, I am all over it. I am in talks with MFreaky and Admin over there right now. They wanted more info confirming what I know, so I sent them some, just waiting to see if they want more proof. I am praying we get him off there. I actually warned those guys before he even started sourcing there, but I had to take my laptop in for a repair, and I didn't have access to forums for about 3 weeks. Ill keep you guys posted.

Feel free to tell them to contact me if they need anyone to confirm the info is legit.

Nothing against you or the products you sell but no way are generics close to pharm...

Why not? Do you know where they are manufactured, what quality control has been applied, and how they are testing out with real lab tests? You are making a blanket statement about all generics that is not necessarily fair. The person who brought the grey tops to the market has been around a very long time and has gone to lengths behind the scenes that no other generic supplier has done to ensure that his products are of top quality.