johnny

Johnny, you should look into supplementing with some Sam-e, otherwise known as S-Adenosyl methionine . It blows my mind that more people using AAS don't know about the many benefits of this wonder supplement. It is better than almost anything you can take when it comes to your liver- it blows milk thistle away. Hardcore alcoholics and junkies have reversed years of damage with sam-e. It is also a powerful mood booster. People report it works better than prescriptions. It is also very good for joints and tendons.

 

I used sam-e with some orals and my values were in normal range towards the end of my cycle. The mood boosting effects were also very apparent at 800mg a day. My doctor couldn't say enough good things about sam-e. Only downside is it can be slightly expensive, but it is very worth it. I would take it year round if I could, but will definitely be using in every aas cycle. It has many more benefits than what I mentioned as well, but it sounds like it is right up your alley.

I was interested in this product when I first heard about it but I did tons of research on it and the results were mixed. Your the first person ive found that was actually taking it that why I opted to go with St. Johns wart for a mood boost seeing as how its been shown in medical studies to boost depression and lack of energy as good if not better than most mild anti-deppresents on the market today. The studys I found from sam-e all stated that the most potent form of it was injection and thats what all the research was based off of. I also read several things that steared me away such as...

*oral from degrading before use

*No human studys. All research was based on animal studys

*No proof was shown to aid in liver rejuvination

*Side effects and action of why it works are still unknown

*High price-availability

and several more things. Here's a link that pops up on google with most of the info I Just posted and I took it as a biased opinion cause it wasnt a site selling or trying to promote the product just a take it as you will site.

http://www.stoneclinic.com/sam_e.htm

Im not disreguarding you results cause you've had liver value's checked and your doc seems to be on the band wagon. I would be more than happy to give the product a shot if you could help me out with a couple things.

1. Where do you purchase it from yourself.

2. Post some studys that you got your info from.

3. A descripton of your routine...dose/length on/doseing schedule ect.

I APPRECIATE YOUR HELP and this is the kind of reply I was looking for if you could help me out with the above ?'s.

Thanks for your help and suggestion bud. Hear from you soon.

John.

just keep passing on the info that you learn from these great guys here and you will be helping others whether you realize it or not. we all know you can get right back where you were so just get to it and be patiant!!;)

Agreed and thanks. When I joined anabolicmadness like 8 or 9yrs back I had no idea about AAS. I went there blind looking for that magic one cycle of dbol or 6 week inject blast and didnt want to take test cause it was bad for you and never considered GH cause I didnt want to be on the gieco commercal:). All my friends just jumped in and thought I was crazy for researching AAS so much...I literally became obsessed with it! Several yrs later I was at my peak with stat's around 6'4 270lbs with a decently low BF and I was taking half the gear my friends were for shorter periods and doing proper PCT which they had no idea what that was. Along the way I met better friends then the one's ive had my whole life (one that comes to mind is Snachito) and everyone I know come's to me for training advice. When they ask me about gear they always follow my advice hesitantly (cause the fat guy at the gym told them otherwise) but still do out of trust. To this day I still feel I know half as much as I should about AAS but when im stuck the guys on here ALWAYS help me sort it out. Even though my home has changed form AM to here the goals we all have stay the same Education/training/Nutrition/Safety and overall well being. Amazing what a google search almost 10yrs ago can turn into!

these laws are there to reduce drug abuse. instead it just promotes sharing of needles among junkies, since you can't get the fuckers without a prescription.

I agree. I went to a local CVS and the pharmacist refused to sell me 3cc 1" 23g pinz even though im a grown clean cut man with a driver's licence and have bought them there every summer from him. On the other hand a guaranteed junkie was at the counter with me and he was buying slin pinz's (one mind you) and the guy sold it to him. I gave the junkie ten bucks to go in and buy mine just to be a prick and see what would happen and the pharmacist sold it to him 5mins after I just asked him for the same one's and he told me they were out even though I pointed out the huge box of them on the shelf! He told me the pharmacist asked him if they were for the steroid addict that just left and he told him no he was using them for horticulture! Horticulture! The only thing that guy could ever grow is an abcess from the one slin pin he's going to use over and over again. Then the junkie told me he didnt know why I needed 25 pinz...he said I could just dump some bleech on it after I was done cause they were made to reuse and it was just a conspiracy by the pharm company to sell more pinz:help: I totally agree on the laws just making sharing and reusing more rampid. They tried to put a needle exchange program in the town next to mine and the board refused saying it gave the town a bad rep even though intervenious drug use has sky rocketed in highschool kids in the last 5yrs! Rediculious!

Damn I cant belive all the support this thread got! I appreciate EVERYONE's help and hope I can repay the favor with support or info one day that might help one of you. I told you guys I told the doc that I didnt want vicodon due to it being highly addictive and all the people I know being fucked up on it. I asked for a non-opiate if he insisted on giving me a pain med. The darvocet he gave me is rated more toxic than tylenol but has tylenol in it and its closely related to METHADONE which if I knew that before hand I NEVER would have ate it. I had my liver values tested before I started the dbol (I started the injects). The doc I went to called and wouldnt give me the numbers over the phone but said he wanted me to come in to explain them (never good) and said that all the tylenol had done a number on my liver value's pretty extreme but he said its reversable in time. He also said if I contined on any toxic pain meds that in a short time the damage wouldnt be reversable. Thats fucked up seeing as how I never take any type of pills until now and even if I take dbol its at 30mg or less and that has been forever ago and my liver tested fine before all this. Hell I dont even drink EVER! Milk thistle do your thing! Here's some info I got on darvocet. It turns out this shit is hell to get off of and it runs horrible havock on the body:(

The following are symptoms of quitting Darvocet:

*Anxiety

*Changes in mood—from a sense of well-being to belligerence

*Lack of feelings of self-confidence common to that of depression

*Increased sensitivity to sights and sounds, including hallucinations

*Altered activity levels—such as sleeping for 12 to 14 hours or frenzied activity lasting for hours

*Unpleasant or painful symptoms when Darvocet is withdrawn

*Preoccupation with running out Darvocet

*Weight loss (occuring prior and after stopping)

*Joint and muscle aches lasting for months

*Feeling of guilt common to that of depression

*Shortness of breath and increased sweating

These symptoms can last ranging anyhwhere from a few months up to a year in lenght with some effects tappering off slowly over the time period.

This is great news! I thought I was depressed and just in shock...turns out im a junkie going threw withdrawls! And I thought things couldnt get any worseLOL Well on the bright side atleast I know what im working with and having that knowledge I guess it will be that much easier to overcome now that I know what the fuck is going on. Time to fall back on my old saying. "Steroids...my anti-drug":026:

I can't say much more then but whats been said. But this place has helped me through some tough times also. You can always find family here bro.

Agreed! Whenever I have a problem someone here always chimes in with some helpful advice and everything seems much clearer after talking to the people on the board for a few about it.

Thanks to EVERYONE again....yes even trigger happy loser:cool2:

of course it got a lot more attention than you thought..you always helpin people man. Now we get to help you brotha...if it was me i'd start the AAS of slow, for atleast a month or two

Ya I was thinking about taking about half the doses I said for the first month or so just to see if I can get back into the swing of things.

I appreciate all the replys guys I really do. Everyones encouragement has helped alot. I never really think of myself as helping people on this board rather I just try to make sure they dont get hurt making a simple mistake. Thats why I like this board so much...everyone pitches in and looks out for one another.

friend is taking 100mg of winni a day

 

he wants to know if he can take 10mg of zyrtec a day or would that be too much

 

thanks

The winny's what he should be worried about not the zyrtec. If I recall right thats just an over the counter allergy med and its not liver toxic. This question reminds me of myself. I can be taking huge dose's of every AAS under the sun and im like..."do you think 2 multivitamins a day would be over doing it". Your buddys fine with the zyrtec. He should really look into taking some milk thistle a few times a day for his liver along with some saw palmettow (sp?) for his prostate...the more of these the merryer. Good looking out on the question though...better safe than sorry later. Take care.

DAMN this thread got way more attention-replys than I ever intended it to:D

I APPRECITATE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOUR REPLYS....yes even your "you should have shot the mother bleeper" response from Loser:) Not to sound like an old man but the older I get the more I have reguards for life. When I was younger the only thing I wouldnt have killed was an animal. I just wouldnt be able to cope with the death of what I consider a child on my hands when for all I know with the proper guidance that kid could grow up to cure aids or become a fireman and save countless lives...ya I told you im getting old.

Cingular. I appreciate your response brother and im glad everything worked out well for you. I hope I have half the strength you did to get back on my feet. Are you back to par 100% from your wreck?

DH. Ya I tried to reason with a scared child....what was I thinking? To many Bruce willis Die Hard movies I guess. Everything worked out for the best I guess. Im just hoping I feel normal again soon.

Wallyd. I think you give me way to much credit brother. I dont have any knowledge that most of these guys here or on AM didnt tech me. What I wish these boards would have tought me was some matrics (?) bullet dodging shit. I guess I did ok though:) Seriously though im gonna hit it hard this cycle and see how I feel at the end. Thank you for the encouragement.

And Habanero. Shit bro thank you for sharing your story! I hope things get better for you no matter what you decide or happens. If you ever need someone to vent to just shoot me a pm im always here (I have no life). I am going to use your focus on the doing part and not the end result. Ive never heard that before and when I thought about it thats what holds most people (including me) from obtaining there goals. If you take small steps and just focus on one day or one trip to the gym at a time and dont look at the big overwhelming picture you dont stray from your goals so easy. Ive been thinking about how much weight ive lost and how I dont look any diffrent after busting my ass lately. Funny thing is in the beginning I wasnt looking for instant gratification....I was lifting for me and didnt have a set goal just to see how far I could go. I appreciate the advice and encouragement alot.

Again thanks to everyone who replied. As always I can count on the board and the iron brotherhood.

Ive kinda got myself in a situation. Im not the most go by the book person and I seemed to have f**ked my body up in a way ive never done before. For those of you who want to skip the story I'll put it in its own section then state the problem but the story should help and explain....

*STORY*

A little bit before christmas I finished rehabing a house which is a hobby I have for great side cash. My partner bought me a huge flat tv for the house as a christmas/celibration gift and hid it in the house for me. Aparrently someone seen him or was looking for tools (house was empty in a not so good area) and decided to break in. I forgot my phone and went back to retrieve it and when I stepped in the front door I realized people were moving in the house. I pulled out my 40cal glock (yes I have a permit) and slowly walked in. I noticed some guys stealing the tv and they spotted me and ran into a room. When they exited one had a paper bag on his hand which I didnt realize at the time was conceiling a hand gun (the bag was to catch the shells). When I noticed they were highschool kids I lowered my weapon and tried to reason with them seeing as how I was a troubled youth also and couldnt imagine killing someones child over a damn tv. I told them to calm down and just leave and no one had to get hurt and I wouldnt call the police and what they were doing was insane and they could get locked up or worse. At that moment the "bag boy" raised his hand and shot at me! I turned to run and slipped on the tile by the door that was wet from my shoes (raining) and fell. They took off and I noticed I was shot in the leg in my inner upper thigh and shoulder (both deep grazes like a cigar burning 1/4" in all the way across) and the other rounds went threw the door.

Afterwards I got medical attention and went on a maintance dose of 250 cyp EW till I could cycle again. From Jan to april I was on a bunch of diffrent meds the doc gave me but I refused the vicodon cause I know a bunch of people strung out on them. I took some antibiotics/tons of tylenol(dumb I know due to liver toxcicity)/some darvocet (sp?) and some anti imflamitorys and whatever else this witch doctor I could afford gave me (no insurance).

*End of long ass story*

I started back to they gym and training is half ass to say the least!

***Current problems.....

*loss of mass. Due to not being able to lift or wanting to eat. 245lbs down to 189lbs:( People think im a drug addict!

*My entire body aches like I have the flu. (been almost a month)

*My motivation is non existent for everything (gym/sex/work/recreation).once im in the gym im fine but getting their seems impossible!

*My mental state is not up to par (feel drained)

*I cant get out of bed without 12+hrs of sleep!

*My appetite is non existent (im overly stuffed off of say a piece of bread)

*Im not my cheery self:) Not even in my normal asshole ways.

Im assuming all the diffrent medication has ran a toll on my body along with being lazy for 4 months and I just have to struggle and get back into the swing of things. I didnt want to bring it up cause I know its my own fault but I figured mabey someone has been threw somthing simular and had some pointers. Im starting a cycle along with a supp routine like this....

1-4 dbol 25mg ED? (kinda hesitant due to all the liver taxing things already)

1-16 Cyp 750mg EW

1-14 Deca 400mg EW

1-enfinity 5iu's HGH ED with T4 cycled.

multi vitamins (mega man)

creatine-glutamine

st.johns wart (read its good for lack of motivation)

protein-carb drinks of course

1 gal water a day

4 meals a day (wanting to vomit constantly)

Liver-prostate supps

Started last monday and things are SLOWLY getting better but I was wondering if this was a bad idea or if anyone had any suggestions or recomendations about this cycle or snapping outta this shit mode?

Sorry for the long ass post and thank you to any and all who reply.

Any idea on what the Hulks cycle looks like? I've heard from a friend who has an uncle that knows his dad say its like 20grams of test a week 50iu gh and 40 iu insulin ed.

NOWAY MAN! My buddys uncles cousins neighbors friend banged this hooker in hongkong one night and she said that her pimps 7th baby mama on his sisters side said she knew a guy in mexico who used to know the guy he got his gear off of. He said that hulk used massive amounts of russian bear and only did 5mg winny suspension at the end to cut up before he turned into the hulk. Dont quote me on this though cause before the guys friend got to ask him the pharmacist tried selling him fakes (monkey piss mixed with whesal semin) and he was dimembered. I hear the hulk only goes threw IP now and the pain is what makes him so mad. Dont ask me though...I thought he just took creatine. Looks like water weight to me. I did read in cosmo that trojan was giving him a contract. I read he had to test the rubbers on wonder woman cause her super vagina was the only pussy strong enough to withstand the trama....then I read in the national enquirer that he broke the contract cause he was doing anal testing on the rubbers and the invisibal man was on set also testing the ribbed rubbers on her and the hulk cornholed him by mistake while he was hitting wonder woman doggy style. Either way I hear the movie is kick ass!

ThumbsUp !!!

 

If I Was Still A Mod Here Johnny, That Post Would Be Sticked, Bravo :clap: ...lol

Im glad you liked it my friend. I figured I would add to the joke. Im writing a book on AAS and related substances. Sometimes I feel like I spend more time explaining what not to do or countering the negative impact of urban legends to set things straight so I fugured I would amuse you guys with a few corrections to common ?'s. I think bad advice is hurting the reputation of using gear more than taking the actual substance. Your original post gave me a laugh so I firured I would return the favor. Take care my friend.

LOL Thanks Johnny this should be a sticky.:hammer:

Thanks brother. Im just glad someone other than me got some entertainment out of it. Ive been really down in the dumps lately and posting on this board seems to be my only escape from reality these days. Take care.

Starting first cycle next week. planning to do Testosterone (Enanthate) 400mg per week for 12 weeks with 20mg dianabol per wk for the first 4 weeks. with 3 weeks clomid for pct.. very basic i know but any good for a first cycle? suggestions welcome, thanks.

I just noticed this was your first post and you just joined. Welcome to the board! Good luck on getting the gains you expect with this first run...if its a good one you will base everyother cycle off this one. If you need any further help you can post up some basic info about yourself and it will make it much easier for us to help you aquire your goals. Basic info usually needed......

1.Stats such as Age, Height, weight, BF.

2.Lifting experience.

3.Current training routine.

4.Diet..this can be simple such as daily consumption of Protien, cals, carbs.

5.Goals. (what you are trying to accomplish).

6.Prior gear experience's (In your case none which is good. Either way your in the right place).

*With this info we can pretty much answer any ?'s you might have.

WELCOME TO ANABOLIC BOARD!

Starting first cycle next week. planning to do Testosterone (Enanthate) 400mg per week for 12 weeks with 20mg dianabol per wk for the first 4 weeks. with 3 weeks clomid for pct.. very basic i know but any good for a first cycle? suggestions welcome, thanks.

WOW is all I have to say!!! This is the best first cycle idea I have seen in month's!!! I love the idea of 400 test for a first run and I am amazed at the 20mg dbol dose...at 20mg you will definatly notice every benifit from the dbol including hitting the threshold for a dbol pump! Eat plenty of milk thistle and eat like a mad man and you will not be disappointed! If you want consider switching the clomid with nolvadex at 20mg a day for 6 weeks and you will avoid having to deal with fucked up feelings and it will turn you on faster-more efficent. Excellent first cycle!

How about throwing some t3 in the mix?

Agreed but not with the number;) I would try throwing 100mg T4 into the mix if you dont have anything against it and can get it. It made a world of diffrence with my GH cycle and if your only running the Gh 3 month's you will get more of the leaning out-fat burning effects sooner with the T4.

Eww Eww let me answer this one:)

To answer your queston....

*no you shouldnt do an all oral cycle

*no you cant do a 3wk inject cycle

*no thats not a good "cutting cycle...all the gear in the world wont make up for you lack in diet commitment.

*Yes thats to much for your first cycle.

*yes 15 is to young to start gear.

*no you shouldnt use GH for only 6 weeks.

*PCT...its the thing that turns your test back on.

*no adding more compounds dosent make up for lack of training.

*no I dont know of ANY places to get gear.

*no you cant build muslce and loose fat at the same time...its possible but pick one "bulking" or "leaning out".

*No that fat dosent eventially turn into muscle.

*of course I think those doses are to high.

*no most places other than BB comps dont test for gear...not even probation.

*yes thats infected...no it wont go away on its own.

*no that shit in the muscle mag isnt just as good as real gear.

*yes cardio does hinder muscle building and repair to a slight degree but your fat and shouldnt be taking steroids anyways so you should probibly be doing tons of cardio anyways.

*no your diet is not in check....no matter how much you tell me it is and lie about all the things you dont really do. Seriously though...I believe youThumbsUp

*I know thats what your friend told you. but he probibly looked close to that before his 15mg oral winstrol cycle and he just trained harder while on due to a placibo effect and thats where his gains came from.

*no you dont inject the whole bottle...over time mabey...unless its an ampule.

*sorry...u need test as a base. Im sure it works without it but better safe than sorry.

*no you dont have gyno...stop rubbing your nipple every 5mins checking for it and the soreness will go away. Or you can continue taking 60mg nolva.

*I know you hate injections...most people do at first but no you cant drink it.

*no alcohol on cycle isnt a great idea...but your going to do it anyways so why ask.

*no winny the last 2wks wont cut you up after your cycle.

*no the tren didnt make you beat your grand mother for putting peanuts in the cookies...your just a woman beating asshole.

*of course your dick wont work...you've been thinking about deca causing erection problems for 10wks +. Its all in your head.

*yes thats what your friend took...he's also an asshole.

*of course its real....u can touch it:rasp:

***and most importantly....Yes I know your not going to follow my advice and your going to do whatever you want anyways cause some guy at the gym does it or someone on here eventially told you somthing close to what you wanted to hear...but im going to be here everynite wasting my breath trying to help you anyways because thats just what I do:agreed:

Did I miss any? You started the attention grabbing thread so I decided to answer some common questions before you had to ask:rasp: J/K

I guess I just had a shitty night so im venting some frustration with humor.

"But for most of us its just not that easy. We try to work our 8-12 hour days at our jobs then juggle a relationship after just those two things, theres not a whole lot of time left in a day for serious BB."

 

Thats one of my main set backs to date. After I work enough to pay for school, then do my homework-studing-labs ect I have little if anytime to put into my relationship and the gym always seems to take a back seat. The whole BB thing has always facinated me but besides their massive size im amazed at every BB dedication no matter how high he's ranked. I just dont think I have the heart to do it:(

 

"Nasser however found a way to do it all...so it can be done.

I agree with Johnny too. Nasser sounds a "Little Bit" bitter. Sounds a lot bitter.

But you have to understand he put his heart and soul into this sport and for 18 plus years. All the while guys of lesser commitment and lesser development

(case in point: Dorian's injuries and he still won, yet Coleman sustained injuries and he lost his title ????) "

 

Agreed. I completly see your point of view and his for that matter and can understand where he's coming from.

 

"But, from what I've seen, most really huge guys sustain a multi gram per week dosage and use DNP and starvation to get cut. These guys use 2-5 grams per week of test in short 4 week cycles that is the word I'm getting as far as dosages. Exactly what and how much is just a matter of personal preference."

 

I figured it was along those lines but never actually heard someone say it. I dont understand the reasoning behind the 4 week thing but then again will never need that kind of info with my goals so I guess I was just curious more than anything.

 

"But I love my sport and If I could Id go all the way...Im to old now but I will never not get my sorry ass to the gym 3-4 days a week.

I'll be 99 and still doing curls with my 5 lbs dumbells in my wheelchair....LOL"

 

I wish I had half your desire and motivation bro. Ive been trying to be serious with BB for years and cant seem to get the drive I need to go anywhere even though I love the sport and lifting.

What makes you to old? What age do you think is to late for someone to start from scratch in the sport with hopes of going semi far?

I can read...I dont like to...but I did it just cause you went threw the effort to post that up for us;)

Well the man sure had a lot to say! I think his mother should have given him more hugs as a child:agreed: Everytime an interview puts up a clip of whats in it and they say it covers everything from their childhood to gear usage I get all excited but it never delivers. Im not sure if the person asking the questions is retarded or they ask the questions all of us want to hear and the interviewee wont let them write about it or refuses to answer. In his case I dont see what the problem is cause he's pretty set on being out of the game and the man sure isnt afraid to speak his mind.

What I really wanted to know was his diet in the form of "I try to hit this many cal's-protein-fats ect with these types of food to reach these diffrent goals".....and "I took such and such types of gear threwout my career at these dose's and I found that I only needed this and that at the end to accomplish all the edge I would ever need"! How hard is that! I know this is an AAS forum but still thats the kinda shit im interested in and I hate hearing people talking about what they read in some bullshit BB mag about diet/training/gear ect cause most of those mag's are full of crappy advertisements for products that the people posing for got paid to say they took and they got none of the size they have off the $300 dollar plus crap their promoting. If you rip out all the bullshit advertising in certain mag's there is only a few articles on training and it is so over the top that an amature would get hurt or actually degress in his goals and hinder his progress further if not quit all togeather from the depressing results.

To sum it up. The man is massive, not affraid to speak his mind, and I am envious of his size but he offered me nothing in the way of helping my training/diet/or supp routine to further my future BB aspects.

*On a positive note he is a fucking monster:D

Okay there may be light at the end of the tunnel... i noticed TREMBOLONE HEXAHYDROBENZYLCARBONATE ....many of you know it as

parabolin only stays in your system for 4-5 weeks.! so it looks like i can use some tren afterall...

weeks 1-8 Prop 100mg ED

weeks 1-8 Parabolin 100mg EOD

weeks 1-8 masteron 100mg EOD

 

hows that look? maybe throw out the masteron? or just use it for a couple weeks?

The best cycle I have done was Test/deca/Eq/dbol all at a low dose. That was the biggest and leanest I have ever been at the same time.

If you can get the parabolin go for it...its a great compound. I didnt know you were looking to clear your system asap afterwards. Prop/Tren/dbol (low dose of 20mg) is an awesome cycle for burring fat and densing up diet depending so you should be fine. Even if you just ran prop with a strict diet I think you would be happy. Believe it or not IGF LR3 burned a ton of BF off of many people I know and it only has to be taken for 4 weeks so you might consider that for PCT or even at the start and for post. Plus the IGF gives some killer pumps that can not be described...at least for me and my friends. I know I sound like a broken record but if your training for fighting just focus mainly on diet and cardio but try no to restrict your diet to much and watch out cause tren reaks havoc on your cardio vasc system. Good luck bro and let us know what you decide. Also if you like Eq so much there is a prop version but it hurts like no other but on a diffrent note Ive taken Prop with nandrolone phenylprop (fast acting deca) and it seemed to work more like Eq and it leaves the system fast.

but for your post johnny i woudnt mind losing that b.f. too...maybe throw some clen or something with that prop and mast.??

As davidlee stated a low dose for cutting is an excellent idea! If your looking to save money you can run somthing like this (seeing as how mast is usually expensive when I see it).....

First off a very clean diet. I know you say its in check but really go over it and read up on some new idea's. Try somthing diffrent to change things up too like dividing your meals up even further to help with hunger issue's from switching from over stuffing yourself to cutting and it dosent cost anything. You can try somthing very basic and cheap yet really effective thats easily available like an ECA stack (ephedrin/caffine/asprin) for 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and it sounds weak but it really helps with fatloss and gives you a boost in the gym. All your looking for is to maintain your current gains but lean out at the same time and add density so the gear dosent have to be high at all to acheive this. You can run somthing like this for ten weeks and you should be more than happy....

1-14 Test E or C 500mg a week.

1-13 EQ 200mg up to 400mg a week. It sometimes makes you hungry but it will add vascularity and help burn BF and help with density alot.

These things are cheap in comparison to tren and should be somewhat easily available. Plus this cycle will give you plenty of time to tweak your diet and really focus on your goals. I know you said you were looking to save money but if you want to lean out and get dense HGH at a low dose is the way to go with some T4. The GH would help you reach your goals better than any cycle and the only thing you would have to run with it was good old test and you would be amazed at the results. Not to encourage GH if you've never considered it, just giving you options and throwing up some diffrent idea's.

If your not trying to bulk up then I would agree with the lower doses. I dont think you need to add anything else to see good results scence your diet and training is in check. Your going for a cutter so im assuming your trying to lean out a little and tighten everything up and not just loose unwanted body fat. If thats the case then lower doses will do just fine and you run much less havock on your body in the long run. As stated above lower doses seem to work just as well for people who have diet and training in check.

your talking about ester-free blood syrum test. of course 100mg susp has more test than, say 100mg test prolongatum. but you were comparing cyp and sust.

 

"Cypionate 2cc = 400mg to 500mg of long acting test. 1-2 shots depending.

Sustanon 5cc = 500mg of long acting test 3 shots minimum a week."

 

what your saying here is that cyp has more total amount of long ester test than sus. what im saying is that you cant rule out that sus also has short acting test that WILL have an affect. its like caomparing a pound of carrots to a pound of corn.

 

if i wanted to take 750mg of test per week, i wouldnt take more than 3ml of iether sus OR cyp; as the total volume of test (not esterless weight) would be 750mg regardless of which kind.

 

i do, however, understand that to keep blood syrum levels high when taking sust, you MUST pin like eod or e2d. so i do see your reasoning when associating the cost per ml of cyp vs sus. BUT, when properly taking 750sus, syrum levels will be MUCH higher (and probably more unstable) than on 500mg cyp.

 

i like debate:)

Your saying almost the same thing im trying to point out but I just think im writing to much and its coming out confusing. Your right the total amount of test will be the same at some point in time but not for long and the cyp will build faster in the system over the weeks when taken with minimum shots unless the sust is used correctly them it will take the advantage. But like you said you have to take the sust ED or EOD to get the stable levels you would off of the 2cc cyp....so im not ruling out the other short esters im saying you have to take them more often therefor using more to get the full benifit off them. So I was pointing out that even though he may pay the same for the sust as the cyp he has to shoot it more so he has to factor that in the total cost when trying to get the best bang for his buck. He was telling us he like's the cyp the best so I just used it as an example. Its funny that we have kept this thead alive talking about this topic and the person who started the post originally needing the advice hasnt even came back to check the answers but were here everynite debating it....yes its true I have no lifeLOL

i disagree with the statement that 2ml cyp=3ml sust. doses of "long" acting test are irrelevant. what your after os the total ammount of test. if sust only had 20mg of "long" acting test, thats not the only test your body is going to get from the sust.

 

test is test. you cant compare 500mg to 750mg and say they are the same.

Ok then. Your going for total amount of test as opossed to the ester reguardless then. So what you just tried to defend was that 250mg of suspension taken on monday then again on tuesday will give you the same results as 250mg of cyp taken on the same days....the "total amount of test" as you put it is the same mg in the body for the week. Mabey you ment 250mg of prop taken on mondays and thursdays gives you the same gains as 250 cyp on the same days...again the "total amount of test" is the same dose on the same days for the week. But I guess the ester connected to the type of test dosent have to be taken into consideration from what your telling me right? Im not trying to be a dick or argue but I think you missed my point.

No one compared 500mg to 750mg and said they were the same.....thats exactly what I was trying to say isnt the same. Mabey I wasnt clear enough. Also I didnt say 2ml cyp = 3ml sust I said it = more around 4-5. I was comparing 1 ester to give an example. My point was that you cant say test is test like you did without comparing the actual ester which is what I did for a cost comparison. NOWHERE did I state the short esters were irrelivent. You are correct in stating the total test dosage does have an effect. What I was trying to deminstrate was that if you dont take the ester into consideration when trying to compare cost you miss the point. Thats like saying 10cc of prop is as good of a deal as 10cc of cyp for the same cost which is what I was trying to stear him away from. Your telling me the total amount of test counts and your right to a certain degree but if you take the sust at only 2cc a week you might as well consider the other ester irrelivent in the total calculation. 2cc sust may work well for a first cycle or an advanced athlete but your telling me that the 60mg of prop that you get from that 2cc is giving you the benifit of your gains (I hope not). I wasnt trying to say sust is not a good compound or that the short acting esters cant have a benifit if you take it often enought (which is about EOD). I was saying you cant compare cyp to sust cost wise without considering how much of the type of injectable you will have to use to see the same result. So mabey you see the same or better benifits off of 3cc sust as you do 3cc cyp 250 but the majority of us dont like I pointed out in my post.

I like cyp better than enanthate also. I get more bloat but I like it and my gains seem to come quicker and more frequent. On the other hand my lifting partner likes enanthate better for the same reasons I like cyp and we have both ran each ester several times. It is to my understanding that they are so simular that the body cant tell the diffrence but it all boils down to personal preferance.

As far as cost goes. When you compare Cypionate to Sustanon for the best buy for your money you have to look at it like this to be fair.

Cypionate 2cc = 400mg to 500mg of long acting test. 1-2 shots depending.

Sustanon 5cc = 500mg of long acting test 3 shots minimum a week.

*So when done properly you have to look at it as the cost of 2cc cyp VS the cost of 5cc sust and see whats cheaper a week to use. So if your ICN enanthate cost say $4 per cc you spend $8 a week to get the same dose of long acting test from sust at $3cc you spend $15 a week.

This is all coming from a scientific point of view in trying to match the doses mg for mg VS dollar ratio. I know some people will chime in and say you dont have to take sust every other day and that there buddy or them did a 1st cycle of only using 2cc a week of sust and gained 200lbs of lean mass and kept it all but were just looking at the facts of matching the compounds mg for mg and keeping them stable in a science stand point.

Thanks but I feel sluggish being heavier..

We (girl and I) went hiking (agrressively) and I was dying aerobically..

Im 6'4 and look like a twig unless I bust 250lbs but once I do I cant breath or even walk in the air conditioned house without busting a sweat. I was 275 two summers ago and I would find myself weizing when I breathed and I snored when I slept even at a very low BF percentage. Its like a double edged sword...if im not up in the higher weight bracket I feel like I look tiny and no one says anything about my build. When im heavy everyone stares and compliments me but im insecure cause im always sweating threw my clothes at family cookouts and events and its embarrasing. I found if I drink atleast a gallon of water a day with 45mins cardio first thing everymorning im still decent sized way more ripped and I seem to sweat less and breath way better. Sound like the problems you having?